Forum Activity for @dusty

Dusty Turtle
@dusty
01/03/24 07:44:13PM
1,848 posts

Robert N. Lackey, rest in peace


OFF TOPIC discussions

Very sad news.  Thanks for letting us know, Ken.  I just posted on the funeral home website and I encourage others to do so.  I only knew Rob from FOTMD and YouTube, but I will miss our interactions greatly.

Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
01/03/24 06:49:59PM
2,157 posts

Robert N. Lackey, rest in peace


OFF TOPIC discussions

Soooo sorry to hear this.  !sadsmile

Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
01/03/24 04:08:41PM
1,553 posts

Robert N. Lackey, rest in peace


OFF TOPIC discussions

I offer my sympathies to Rob's family and friends.  

Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
01/03/24 03:42:22PM
1,338 posts

Robert N. Lackey, rest in peace


OFF TOPIC discussions

Here is a link to the obituary for Rob Lackey. https://spicermullikin.com/robert-neil-lackey/ It is in the chat area, but I know some folks don't use that. Rob was one of our greeters here. He was a wonderful dulcimer player besides being an accomplished guitarist. He was very active in the mountain dulcimer and folk music communities around Fairmount, WV. He will be missed by family and friends.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Strumelia
@strumelia
01/03/24 10:27:10AM
2,403 posts

FOTMD needs your support


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

My deepest thanks to the folks who have again stepped up to help support this site. You know who you are. inlove
It's often the same ten or so members each year who show their generosity. If you regularly enjoy the resources here and have never donated before, if you are comfortably able to make a donation I would greatly appreciate it.
It costs about $75/month in server and software fees to keep FOTMD running. Making a donation is easy- just use the site's Home page Paypal Donation button and use a credit card to complete it (you don't need a paypal account to do this). Members who donate $35 or more will see a "Patron" label on their profile page.
Many Thanks to those who help out!

Nate
@nate
01/03/24 09:36:25AM
442 posts

Traditional role of the mountain dulcimer.


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Wally Venable:

As I have noted before, there is still a culture of "cigar box" instrument makers, many of whom are now making instruments with electric pickups. I suspect that wood from shipping boxes for various imports was used because it was available in usable "thinnesses."

 
I have built many cigar box guitars, and a few cigar box dulcimers, including a couple very unconventional ones. Nowadays cigar boxes are mostly for 'aesthetics' which is why most of them have pickups that entirely overwhelm and negate the tone of the box. I believe you are right that thin, prefabricated boxes are good for tone and that cigar boxes are, and have always been, very accessible.

It makes sense to me that craftsmen have always been skilled and competent and with capable tools, but I would contend that the ability to build string instruments generally requires access to information. I often take for granted how much information I have access to about dulcimer building, both scientific and anecdotal. For people learning to build instruments without access to information, I assume they used intuition as well as 'trial and error.' and I imagine these contributed to the changes/innovations in zithers that Appalachian Americans made.
Thank you for your insights, Wally.
-Nate
Nate
@nate
01/03/24 09:18:16AM
442 posts

Traditional role of the mountain dulcimer.


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Ken Hulme:

Nate said  "I assume the original developers of dulcimers were very innovative folks who were applying the concepts of older zithers to the materials they had in the Appalachians. This makes it hard for me to tell the difference between deliberate choices made by the 'masters of old' and choices made purely out of necessity. It's hard for me to imagine that they would have used staple frets if they had access to fretwire." 

You have to remember that those "innovative folks...applying the concepts of older zithers...":  were not consciously doing anything. 

They were random, scattered individuals who heard and/or saw an instrument someone had -- who in turn had seen/heard someone else's instrument... back through time to the zitters which came over in the late 1500s/early 1600s.  There probably were no Euro-trained luthiers among the Moravians, the builders to follow were trying to replicate instruments that had come from the old country. -- out of necessity.  Staple frets of the early 19th century were the high-tech of the time. prior to that there were wood/bone/ivory inlaid frets or the tied gut frets of Lutes.  Mushroom frets weren't invented until the mid 1800s in Europe.  

 
Ken, this perfectly highlights what I mean to convey. That people will ultimately use all sorts of things depending on what is available to them. Perhaps people who understood the parts of a zither on a conceptual level found a lot of different ways to employ these principles with different instrument designs. I still imagine that if you gave top of the line modern building equipment to classical builders of old, that they would be ecstatic to use it. Still, when I see an instrument like a TMB, what I most admire is the cleverness of building a beautiful instrument in such a simple way. Thanks again for the insight. 
Nate
Wally Venable
@wally-venable
01/03/24 09:02:00AM
138 posts

Traditional role of the mountain dulcimer.


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Ken said:
....  There probably were no Euro-trained luthiers among the Moravians, the builders to follow were trying to replicate instruments that had come from the old country....

Nor among the Germans, Scots, Irish, etc. but it is almost certain that simple fiddles were being made and played. As I have noted before, there is still a culture of "cigar box" instrument makers, many of whom are now making instruments with electric pickups. I suspect that wood from shipping boxes for various imports was used because it was available in usable "thinnesses."

I can remember 75 years ago when "orange crates" were made of rather high quality stock about 1/4 inch thick. Cub Scout manuals provided plans for making stuff from such readily available recyclables."

Ken also said "prior to that there were wood/bone/ivory inlaid frets or the tied gut frets of Lutes.  Mushroom frets weren't invented until the mid 1800s in Europe."

I can imagine using the wood from small boxes set in slots cut with a cross-cut or furniture maker's back saw as frets. I seem to recall that some match boxes had wood parts when I was a child, and you can produce small pieces of thin wood with a simple plane.

It's easy to envision hill folks as "having nothing," but the reality is that most communities had craftsmen capable of making windows and doors and their frames, country furniture, etc. as well as the occasional gift of extremely high quality. There would have been good quality saws, planes, knives, and chisels, in most of the smallest villages and on many farms.

Most hill folks went to the county, or township, seat to pay taxes, serve on juries, consult real estate lawyers, and so on. The men-folks served in the army. They didn't live in complete isolation and saw most of the "high tech" of the day.

While I have been part of a university community I have had neighbors who lived with more-or-less 1899 resources, so I have some first hand knowledge.

And we know that many of the earliest dulcimer vendors lived in towns.

Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
01/03/24 08:09:06AM
2,157 posts

Traditional role of the mountain dulcimer.


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Nate said  "I assume the original developers of dulcimers were very innovative folks who were applying the concepts of older zithers to the materials they had in the Appalachians. This makes it hard for me to tell the difference between deliberate choices made by the 'masters of old' and choices made purely out of necessity. It's hard for me to imagine that they would have used staple frets if they had access to fretwire." 

You have to remember that those "innovative folks...applying the concepts of older zithers...":  were not consciously doing anything. 

They were random, scattered individuals who heard and/or saw an instrument someone had -- who in turn had seen/heard someone else's instrument... back through time to the zitters which came over in the late 1500s/early 1600s.  There probably were no Euro-trained luthiers among the Moravians, the builders to follow were trying to replicate instruments that had come from the old country. -- out of necessity.  Staple frets of the early 19th century were the high-tech of the time. prior to that there were wood/bone/ivory inlaid frets or the tied gut frets of Lutes.  Mushroom frets weren't invented until the mid 1800s in Europe.  

shanonmilan
@shanonmilan
01/03/24 02:24:45AM
67 posts

Traditional role of the mountain dulcimer.


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

NateBuildsToys:

It is interesting to think that at a time when European antecedents were 'traditional,' at one point the dulcimer was probably considered an innovative new thing. I wonder if there were once epinette players who saw new fancy zitters shaped like violins with heart shaped soundholes and looked down on them for not being traditional.giggle2

Your real question is too big for me to answer, but I'm sure some folks on here definitely could. If you havent already I recommend joining the Dulcimer History group
https://fotmd.com/ken-longfield/group/38/mountain-dulcimer-history-traditions
and the Dulcimer Ancestors group
https://fotmd.com/strumelia/group/14/dulcimer-ancestors


 

 Imagining epinette players scoffing at the newfangled zitters brings a smile! If you have any more insights or fun anecdotes, feel free to share!

Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
01/02/24 10:13:50PM
2,157 posts

Beginner questions about dulcimer care


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

If you're lucky there is a dust/pressure/scratch some sort of mark on the surface of the fretboard.  Otherwise measure from the inside edge of the nut to the top of the 7th fret and double that from the inside edge of the nut to the inside edge of where the nut is a good place to put the bridge to start.  Position may need a bit of tweaking from there...


updated by @ken-hulme: 01/02/24 10:34:56PM
GreatLakes73
@greatlakes73
01/02/24 04:09:31PM
14 posts

Beginner questions about dulcimer care


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thank you all for your guidance! Yes, I figured out you don’t remove all the strings at once once I realized the bridge has fallen off and was somewhere on the living room rug 😉. I need to take it in to a luthier here to get something addressed and he’s going to help me with replacing the bridge in the right spot. I think I saw a video on how to figure out where the bridge should be, but now I can’t locate it.

Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
01/02/24 03:58:18PM
2,157 posts

Beginner questions about dulcimer care


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Welcome!  Warren  is a great resource and still building a few instruments a year at his home shop.  He'll happily answer your questions.  

I would leave his instrument tuned DAA or Ddd, and have your other instrument with the 6+ tunned to DAd since it was probably built with that tuning in mind.  

A wipe down with a damp rag is the perfect cleaning process.

One thing to note is that when changing strings we almost never recommend stripping the instrument 'bare' as you called it.  The reason is that if the instrument has no mark or slot where the bridge is supposed to go, it can be a real pain to get it back in the proper place so the instrument sounds correct -- the distance between nut and fret is critical to within a millimeter or so....   Better just to get in the habit of removing and replacing one string at a time.


updated by @ken-hulme: 01/02/24 04:00:00PM
Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
01/02/24 08:58:46AM
2,157 posts

Dulcimer maker unknown


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Haven't heard of the maker, but a photo or two would help us ID the instrument.

Strumelia
@strumelia
01/02/24 08:32:56AM
2,403 posts

Dulcimer maker unknown


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Hi Mike, I moved this discussion to the forum about specific instrument makers and questions, so people could find it better. 

Sorry though i have not heard of Danmont Dulcimers. Perhaps someone else here will have and can respond.

motormike
@motormike
01/02/24 02:01:38AM
16 posts

Dulcimer maker unknown


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Hello all...thanks for the add.
I own an Appalachian dulcimer.
It has 3 strings and is very simple in design.
There is a paper label inside.
The label is hand-written with sharpie.
Maker is "Danmont Dulcimers"
also listed as an "A-1 model"
Serial no. is 0003
Presumed to have originated in east Tennessee
more than 20 years ago.
Are there ANY members out there who have
ever heard of this maker.
ANY information is welcomed.


updated by @motormike: 01/06/24 02:39:26PM
tonyg
@tonyg
01/01/24 06:04:22PM
14 posts

6 1/2 in ionian mode


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Thanks Ken....I found it online and downloaded it.  And thanks to you too Dusty.

Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
01/01/24 01:38:06PM
2,157 posts

6 1/2 in ionian mode


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Tony -- Dusty's given you the straight stuff.  If you want to know more about Modes and  Modal tunings, I can email you a booklet/essay I wrote several years ago called The Uncontrite Modal Folker, which goes into all the nitty gritty... Sendme your email addy in a PM...

Dusty Turtle
@dusty
12/31/23 10:45:07PM
1,848 posts

6 1/2 in ionian mode


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

@tonyg, if you are tuned Ddd (or DAd for that matter) and play a song in the ionian mode, you should be using the 6-1/2 fret.  The 6 fret would be mixolydian.

If you did not have a 6-1/2 fret, you would have to tune your melody string to A to get the ionian mode, and your base or tonic would be the 3rd fret.

The reason is simply that the songs you have chosen employ the major scale or ionian mode.  Other songs--most obviously Old Joe Clark--employ the mixolydian mode.  Some songs are actually pentatonic, and only involve a 5-note scale. Those can usually be played in either the ionian or the mixolydian modes.  But truly modal melodies can only be played in one mode.

In the key of D, the ionian mode makes use of the C# (the 6+ fret on a D string) and the mixolydian mode makes use of the C natural (the 6 fret on a D string).

To play modal music, dulcimer players get accustomed to changing tunings.  Or, they add frets.  The main reason for the popularity of the 6+ fret is that it lets dulcimer players play in both the ionian and mixolydian modes without changing tunings.

I hope that clarifies more than it muddies.

tonyg
@tonyg
12/31/23 05:46:04PM
14 posts

Traditional role of the mountain dulcimer.


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Interesting question, and one I've  thought of often.  My response would be a quote.....maybe by Lynn McSpadden, found in the "Four and Twenty" songbook they used to include when you bought a new McSpadden: 

"The dulcimer......that quiet, peaceful, personal instrument designed for playing in a lonely log cabin deep in some dark holler."

For me, nothing much has changed.

tonyg
@tonyg
12/31/23 05:31:59PM
14 posts

6 1/2 in ionian mode


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I generally keep my dulcimer tuned d-d-D.  I've  noticed when I play in the ionian mode, certain hymns like Hoy, Holy, Holy, Abide With Me, and Softly and Tenderly require the use of the 6 1/2 fret.  (I've  also noticed I can't  seem to play these same hymns in the mixolydian mode.....at least not in d-d-D tuning)  Could anyone give me the reason for this, keeping in mind I'm  not the sharpest knife in the music theory drawer?  Thanks......

John C. Knopf
@john-c-knopf
12/31/23 02:15:10PM
445 posts

Beginner questions about dulcimer care


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Hi!  Welcome to the site!  I've known Warren May for probably 45 years now, and he always has a good word to say.  He's friendly and talented and likes to talk!  He'll give you more dulcimer information than you ask for.  I'd visit his shop once or twice a year in the past, and he always remembered me, by name, and would ask me how things were in Detroit.  Very fun guy to talk with.

Richard Streib
@richard-streib
12/31/23 02:04:12PM
277 posts

Beginner questions about dulcimer care


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Warren May is still building dulcimers. He is a delightful and friendly gentleman. The questions you pose he would be glad to answer. His number is on his website. If you leave a message I have always found him to return calls. Hope that helps.

GreatLakes73
@greatlakes73
12/31/23 12:26:42PM
14 posts

Beginner questions about dulcimer care


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Hello! I have a 2006 Warren May all cherry dulcimer I bought used a few weeks ago and am just learning about. I’m in the process of restringing and just wondering, while I have it “naked,” if I should do anything more than wipe it down with a very slightly damp cloth. It looks to be in very good condition. 

one other question: this dulcimer has no extra frets. I’m thinking of leaving it tuned to DAA. I do have another instrument coming next week that has a 6.5 fret, also from Warren May. Should I leave that tuned to DAD or do his dulcimers in general do better with DAA? Please forgive my ignorance. I do have a background in piano but know nothing really about different modes, etc, etc what I’ve tried to pick up from this site so far. Thanks!

Strumelia
@strumelia
12/31/23 11:50:13AM
2,403 posts

FOTMD needs your support


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I want to thank the several members of FOTMD who have made donations this holiday season.  It is so kind and generous of you to support our site during these trying times.  Your thoughtfulness is so much appreciated and keeps this dulcimer network running (for 14 years now!).  Hugs to you and may you have a warm and safe holiday season in the company of good friends and loved ones.  🥰 grphug

cairney
@steve-c
12/31/23 12:28:48AM
99 posts

Gary Gallier's Dulcimers


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

He told me last spring that he has quit building.  

Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
12/29/23 11:08:23PM
1,338 posts

Don Pedi & Bruce Greene (Loy McWhirter sings, also)


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

That was a delightful video. I enjoyed watching it. Thanks for directing us to it Robin.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Strumelia
@strumelia
12/29/23 06:01:50PM
2,403 posts

Don Pedi & Bruce Greene (Loy McWhirter sings, also)


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

What a wonderful new video to watch and enjoy, Robin!  🥰

Jeannie in Paradise
@jeannie-in-paradise
12/29/23 03:16:01PM
11 posts

Introduce Yourself!


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Dusty Turtle:

Nice to hear from @Doug-Jones and @Jeannie-in-Paradise. l consider both of you local friends.  And Jeannie, you are the reason I am here. You found me at the original Everything Dulcimer site and encouraged me to join here. I will be forever grateful. flower


 

Awww, thank you Dusty! <3

Jeannie in Paradise
@jeannie-in-paradise
12/29/23 03:13:55PM
11 posts

Modern Mountain Dulcimers?


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I'm sorry to hear that David is no longer building dulcimers. I've owned two of his exceptional instruments.  I'm now trying to determine a fair price for the MMD koa chromatic that I still own (lost the other one in the Paradise Camp Fire), as I no longer play dulcimer.  I'd think the MMD dulcimers would hold their value well, but I've been told that chromatic ones "sell for less."  Hmmm?

Strumelia
@strumelia
12/29/23 09:01:40AM
2,403 posts

Introduce Yourself!


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

 @montycraig , I bet you are getting excited about your McSpadden coming soon. I got an hourglass all-walnut McSpadden as my first dulcimer, and it had a voice like an angel!  My daughter has it now. You will be pleased.

Strumelia
@strumelia
12/29/23 08:56:51AM
2,403 posts

Introduce Yourself!


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

 @matthewlyon , that dulcimer in your profile photo looks like a lovely instrument- is that the one your wife gave you as a surprise present?
With tall action and a traditional diatonic fret layout, it was smart of you to decide to play it in noter style! I hope you are enjoying it, both when playing with others and playing alone.

Dusty Turtle
@dusty
12/29/23 01:46:30AM
1,848 posts

Introduce Yourself!


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Nice to hear from @Doug-Jones and @Jeannie-in-Paradise. l consider both of you local friends.  And Jeannie, you are the reason I am here. You found me at the original Everything Dulcimer site and encouraged me to join here. I will be forever grateful. flower

Dusty Turtle
@dusty
12/29/23 01:43:03AM
1,848 posts

Modern Mountain Dulcimers?


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

It's certainly sad for the dulcimer community that David is no longer making dulcimers.

I have a MMD made entirely of lacewood that I got from Aaron O'Rourke.  It has the lowest action of any dulcimer I've ever played.  That's the instrument that helped me develop what passes for my flatpicking technique.

Phil Myers
@phil-myers
12/28/23 04:49:16PM
29 posts

Modern Mountain Dulcimers?


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Yes, it's true. A good friend of mine, John Hawk, has been the Modern Mountain rep for many years and he confirmed that David is no longer building dulcimers.

Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
12/27/23 05:03:15PM
1,338 posts

The "I have small hands" idea


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Wow, it was fun reading through this thread again. There is much good encouragement here for all dulcimer players. Thanks for calling it to our attention Strumelia. It caused me to look up the scale length (VSL) of various instruments from mandolins at 13-14 inches to electric bass guitars at 43 inches. Most modern acoustic guitars fall in the 24.5 to 25.4 inch range. Five string and four string plectrum banjos around 26.25 inches. Like John Keane, I find a 27 inch vsl comfortable but I have dulcimers with longer and shorter scales.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Nate
@nate
12/27/23 03:09:32PM
442 posts

The "I have small hands" idea


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

This is a terrific thread and I remember reading it a few years ago when I first started dulcimer. I thought I had small hands when I first started playing, just because I couldn't make chord shapes.faceplant It also didnt help anything that my first dulcimer had a 29" vsl. Still, I played it and got used to big stretches and then I started making dulcimers with smaller VSLs. I was able to make much bigger stretches much more comfortably.
So is the lesson that playing on a hard instrument makes easy ones easier? Or is it that I could have had much less struggle and discomfort by only playing on a smaller dulcimer? 
It brings up the question of how much I want to physically challenge myself vs how much I just want to enjoy playing.

Now, I'm convinced I have pretty big hands, but I still prefer a 23" VSL to anything longer.  I have a couple years of practice stretching my hands, but there are still really long stretches that I wouldn't want to try on a 29" VSL.
At one point I really wanted to play more  challenging music, but I get a lot more enjoyment out of having an easy, comfortable time playing less challenging music. Obviously both are valid. HUG
I think the big thing is that no one should ever convince themselves that they  can't  play a longer VSL instrument because of small hands, but making stretches on a shorter VSL instrument is still a lot more comfortable.
Nate

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